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this is james randi and you're listening

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to the skeptic zone welcome to the

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skeptic zone the podcast from Australia

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for science and reason hello and welcome

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to the skeptic zone episode number 229

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for the ninth of March 2013 Richard

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Saunders here with you from the

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beautiful the gorgeous countryside at

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MIT emitter victoria australia it's just

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after dawn the birds are singing there's

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a babbling brook right down in front of

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me I'm at the house of lorries and Eden

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Smith now are the local skeptics here

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some of the local skeptics yes the birds

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are singing it's really a magical place

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I wish you were all here on this week's

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show we're going to kick off with a

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Maynard's spooky action what an

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interesting Maynard spooky action we

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have for you this week Maynard is going

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to be speaking with Simon through from

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the pirate party Australia is your

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online freedom at risk what is the law

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in regards to your online activities and

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can the government snoop on you that's

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coming up at the top of the show with

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Maynard's spooky action and the pirate

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party australia following that it's

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another installment of the week in

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science without a dear friend dr. Paul

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Willis from the Royal Institution in

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Adelaide that's w WR I you soo ba you

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and what a fine institution that is a

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wrap up of the week in science and then

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we have dr. Reggie reports well sort of

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a doctor rachy reports dr. Reggie along

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with our very own Peter Budaj from

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Australian skeptics and Julie Leask with

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Kate Tracy and Hannah Bell Nick were all

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interviewed on radio 2's

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I about anti-vaccination and vaccination

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issues yes radio to a CR where this

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report was first heard and we thank

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radio to ser very much but kindly

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allowing the skeptic zone to use this

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story and following that it's off to

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skeptics in the pub in Sydney where I

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play the part of Maynard that's usually

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may not running around with these

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microphone at skeptics in the pub may

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not couldn't make it this week so I took

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over may not duties and I asked some

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questions which you might ponder while

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you're listening to the skeptic zone

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until we get to that segment the

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questions I asked which are sort of

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related one do you think that human

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society as a whole will ever turn to

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science and reason and away from

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superstition belief and two if that does

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happen how long do you think it'll take

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will it be a week will it be two weeks

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will it be 10 years 20 years a century

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two centuries or so on ponder those

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questions and to wrap up the show oh man

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oh boy jealous or what may nod has a

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story about the electric conversion or

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the conversion to electric power of a

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DeLorean a real DeLorean and Maynard

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gets to have a ride in it Wow and I was

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putting this story together when may not

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sent it to me i was just so jealous join

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my dad for a ride in an electric

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DeLorean what has that got to do with

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skepticism i hear you cry well not so

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much but it's a DeLorean that's just so

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beautiful here birds are singing all the

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sun's now coming through the trees yes I

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what a magical place now the for the

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folks in Sydney Australian skeptics are

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having a dinner meeting on the sixth of

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April with dr. Brook Magnon T forensic

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pathologist genetic epidemiologist and

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author of the secret diary of a call

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girl talks on sex myths and why we

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believe them now that's going to be the

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ride Eastwood's leaf club west ryde

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seven o'clock on the sixth of april and

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you can book your tickets you don't have

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to be a subscriber to the skeptic

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magazine anybody can come along go to ww

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skeptics com au and I'm just being

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joined by a little dog at my feet hunt

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oh yes hello you sit sit there you sit

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there and listen to me another dog

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what's going on headed arrow good

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morning yes sit sit good dog it's all

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happening here folks right yes sir Thank

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You dogs the six of april seven o'clock

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skeptics com delay you for more details

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and to get your tickets is that the

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breakfast bill I just heard in the

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background it could well be well I

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better run to have my breakfast more

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information from me coming up during the

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show about the wonderful film festival

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i'm going to be speaking out in the

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czech republic but i think these dogs

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are telling me it's time to go and go up

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i'm not going to run downstairs because

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i'm not near stairs i'm going to run up

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this short hill here run to the

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breakfast table and while I'm doing that

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I hope you enjoy the skeptic zone come

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here's my not spooky action at the

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well I don't often speak to politicians

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but I may well be speaking to a

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politician now from a party that doesn't

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have a lot of history but it does have a

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history internationally please welcome

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Simon through deputy of the Australian

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pirate party is that the correct name of

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the party Simon technically part party

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Australia yeah are you in any way

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affiliated or inspired by the people

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that I first heard this name from the

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guys from piratebay that got the Swedish

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Pirate Party going a few years back

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originally came from the same movement

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they originally set up to defend the

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Pirate Bay the downloading site to fight

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against attacks from the legal system in

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Sweden they form the political party

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that fight back and since then they got

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a few people elected to the European

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Parliament and it's better on the world

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and we've formed a local branch back

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around 2009 I think you can be fairly

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zigs inked and saying what is the pirate

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party's platform basically we came about

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due to the tax on civil liberties online

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so our main interest is trying to fight

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back against surveillance and bans on

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file sharing and governments generally

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using the changing technology to online

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as a way to strip back civil liberties a

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lot of people would think that their

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activities online are completely

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anonymous even now and I imagine almost

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every single thing you do online is

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recorded somewhere and can be found out

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by someone at any time unless you take

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extreme lengths so that's correct isn't

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it basically sites like Facebook Google

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to a lesser extent Twitter they over

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hand over information to government kind

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of relatively regular basis Facebook and

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Google both do it without usually

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putting up a fight Twitter's a bit more

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different with I'll actually try to

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defend the right to privacy in court I'd

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say actually we have the we have a

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petition going into the Australian

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Senate with our green Senator Scott

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Ludlam is presenting it's about the

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national security I inquiry that was

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held late last year where they want to

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collect all sort of phone carrier data

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mailing things like that without warrant

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use it as a way to track everyone they

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sort of claim that they're losing these

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abilities with people moving from

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on normal traditional land lines to

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evolve devices and internet I would

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think this makes it incredibly easier

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for them to find out things about people

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because if you want to track someone and

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they got a firm with them you got them

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exactly yeah and all you all you've got

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to do is present reasonable reason why

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you would like to do that and if you are

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a law enforcer you should have

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reasonable reason to find out where

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someone is you shouldn't just do it

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because it's a thursday there's limits

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to what they're actually can can't do

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but a lot of that stuff is actually they

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can do without a warrant even now

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there's they've got a lot of ability to

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see where phone towers in year and give

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up you're up against quite a task with

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the pirate party because as well as a

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warning about civil liberties you you

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have to try and let people know what

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civil liberties they've lost as well and

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a lot of people aren't aware of that

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they basically claiming access to rights

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I never actually had people would find

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like me how to access the emails and

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stuff like that they just have never

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really been able to do that actual

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biggest problems when the cows get

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abused countless records of place you

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know you looking up ex-lovers and stuff

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I'm criminal databases yes so does it

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tend to be law enforcement people

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overstepping their line or is it tend to

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be someone at the tax office looking up

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a celebrity what sort of cases have come

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to mind that you can think of cases of

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things like that going on quite a bit in

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the UK where they have a data retention

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regime already set up they've had

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tokamak employees selling data to data

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mining companies so selling all the

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private information of customers that

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which has been kept so say someone at a

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telecommunications company was offered

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money from a large newspaper

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conglomerate that would like to know

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phone numbers or a list of phone data

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they would offer a person quiet on the

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counter in front of Friday not the pub a

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bit of money and a USB stick might

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exchange hands that could be a

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theoretical situation yeah that's

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definitely not entirely sure what sort

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of system they're going to propose with

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the law because that this help inquiry

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into all the issues around it there's

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been a bit quiet about what they

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actually want to do I think also being

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election year they might

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like leave it on the back burner until

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after the election your party actually

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has quite a wide platform beyond just

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wanting to download music there's civil

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liberties of course there it goes into

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patent legislations and laws that apply

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internationally free trade agreements

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that Australia's signs you've actually

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got a party that covers a very wide area

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we've also in the process of trying to

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expand our platform in the lead-up to

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the election we have a conference in

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April introduce new ideas and see what

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members say if people want to find out

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more about the pirate party Australia is

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at the official name party Australia yep

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you've got a regular podcast you can

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have a listen to about weekly updates of

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what you get up to but what's the

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website where people can either get on

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there and agree or disagree with you

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alright party Gorga you Simon through

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deputy president of the pirate party

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hi this is brian dunning from the

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sceptile podcast ATS kept I calm for 15

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years now dr. Bob's trivia quiz has been

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a part of Australian skeptics each month

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the mysterious dr. Bob comes up with

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questions that defy all logic and reason

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only the best of the best dare attempt

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to answer these brain twisters and no

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google won't help you visit dr. Bob's

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quiz wordpress.com that's dr be OBS quiz

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wordpress.com to take part and to see

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the complete archive of dr. bob's trivia

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welcome to a week in science this week

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fluoride in water paleoclimate shocks

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00:12:45,369 --> 00:12:43,850
and how to build a planet fluoridation

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of water has been in the news recently

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as some towns have ended this effective

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public health practice but a long-term

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study of Australian teeth released this

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week reveals a significant reduction in

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dental problems in people with a longer

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history of drinking fluoridated water

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00:13:04,929 --> 00:13:02,660
the study found around ten percent less

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decayed missing and filled teeth in

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people with a high lifetime fluoride

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exposure compared to those with a low

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exposure the study concluded that there

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was a dose-related effect of

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fluoridation the longer the exposure the

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less dental care problems occur a study

287
00:13:25,389 --> 00:13:23,059
released this week looked at the

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relationship between carbon dioxide and

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global warming at the end of the last

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00:13:33,249 --> 00:13:30,649
ice age previous studies of gas trapped

291
00:13:35,079 --> 00:13:33,259
in antarctic ice showed that the climate

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was warmer during periods of high

293
00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:38,600
atmospheric co2 and colder when co2 was

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lower this study showed that these

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00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:43,600
changes occurred simultaneously

296
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suggesting that they are related

297
00:13:50,769 --> 00:13:48,259
meanwhile a second study released this

298
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week reports that today's global climate

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is

300
00:13:55,370 --> 00:13:53,100
more than it has been for most of the

301
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last eleven thousand three hundred years

302
00:14:00,580 --> 00:13:57,660
a patent emerged with a rise in

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00:14:03,140 --> 00:14:00,590
temperature as the last ice age ended

304
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:03,150
warming conditions continued until a

305
00:14:08,060 --> 00:14:05,310
cooling trend over the five thousand

306
00:14:10,610 --> 00:14:08,070
years that ended around 200 years ago

307
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:10,620
since then temperatures have risen

308
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:13,440
steadily for science headlines in 30

309
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:17,130
seconds BPA from plastic food containers

310
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:18,810
may increase the risk of childhood

311
00:14:24,620 --> 00:14:22,440
asthma phantom pain the pain experienced

312
00:14:26,510 --> 00:14:24,630
from a missing limb is caused by

313
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disruptions to the sensorimotor cortex

314
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:29,460
of the brain brain waves are shaped to

315
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:31,740
allow people to focus on the sound of a

316
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:33,510
speaker competing against background

317
00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:36,570
noise and the protein which allows the

318
00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:38,220
taste buds to tell the brain about

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different tastes has been identified and

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00:14:47,810 --> 00:14:45,300
finally this week astronomers have

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00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:47,820
observed a previously unseen phenomena

322
00:14:53,630 --> 00:14:50,730
the birth of a planet an international

323
00:14:58,060 --> 00:14:53,640
team studied a disk of gas and dust that

324
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:58,070
surrounds the young star HD 100 546

325
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:01,680
located in a burly 335 light-years from

326
00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:04,290
Earth the astronomers concluded that

327
00:15:09,380 --> 00:15:06,540
this celestial construction job could

328
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,390
take tens of thousands of years allowing

329
00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:10,800
for changes to council planning

330
00:15:17,540 --> 00:15:13,020
regulations and overly incompetent

331
00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:17,550
architect and dodgy tradies it's the

332
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:19,470
last week of Fringe so make sure to

333
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:21,810
check out rock band ala jizzum this

334
00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:25,110
weekend and on march 16 we welcome back

335
00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:27,630
astronomer Fred Watson for a book club

336
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:29,880
event featuring his new book stark

337
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,410
raving mad information on our website

338
00:15:38,780 --> 00:15:36,480
that's been another big week in science

339
00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:38,790
you can watch this episode and other

340
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:41,190
episodes of a week in science as well as

341
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:42,900
a host of other great science videos

342
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,650
through our website Arya's org dot a you

343
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:48,720
where you can also sign up for

344
00:15:53,570 --> 00:15:51,810
notifications of future episodes you can

345
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:53,580
follow a week in science on twitter

346
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,060
using the hashtag weekend sigh i'm paul

347
00:16:04,690 --> 00:15:59,040
willis and on behalf of the our oils

348
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:08,900
hey Kenny oh hi Tom I see this part yeah

349
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:12,390
yes great weather oh look a unicorn

350
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:14,820
unicorn there are no such things as

351
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:18,000
unicorns silly yes there is no there

352
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:20,160
isn't hey guys what are you arguing

353
00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:22,430
about tom thinks unicorns are real

354
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:25,560
thanks so r let's look this up in the

355
00:16:30,290 --> 00:16:28,560
skeptics dictionary the what how can we

356
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:30,300
do this in this park there is no

357
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:32,010
computer here you guys probably don't

358
00:16:36,769 --> 00:16:33,720
know about the skeptics dictionary app

359
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:36,779
available now for iPhone iPad and iPod

360
00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:40,710
touch in the app store Wow cool the app

361
00:16:44,450 --> 00:16:42,270
lets you access all of the great

362
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,460
skeptics dictionary articles when you're

363
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:47,040
on the go here let me look up unicorns

364
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,770
not cool Kenny prepare to be proven

365
00:16:56,450 --> 00:16:52,320
wrong it says here the Unicorn is a

366
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:56,460
creature from fables aha actually I see

367
00:17:00,290 --> 00:16:57,720
now that someone just dumped their ice

368
00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:00,300
cream cone on that horse's head thanks

369
00:17:11,929 --> 00:17:09,750
skeptics dictionary iphone app I'm still

370
00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:11,939
here this wonderful the countryside

371
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:13,829
adhered millimeter having a chat too

372
00:17:18,919 --> 00:17:15,569
skeptical Steve Roberts steve roberts

373
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,929
who drove Road a motorbike from London

374
00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:21,600
right across the maghuin dhonn in the in

375
00:17:26,329 --> 00:17:23,880
Russian Far East Russia yeah yeah we

376
00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:26,339
ride across Europe across Russia down to

377
00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:28,920
Kazakhstan and back out again and where

378
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:30,900
Mongolia and then across the whole of

379
00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:32,580
Siberia and out the other side into them

380
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:35,040
into the Russian Far East and we ended

381
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:36,660
up in a town called Magadan which is

382
00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:38,940
where the road ends and it's so low near

383
00:17:44,930 --> 00:17:42,420
Vladivostok but some is down that in any

384
00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:44,940
way that's extraordinary and you wrote a

385
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,040
blog about your adventures I did yeah if

386
00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:49,679
you google steve road of bones it'll

387
00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:52,140
come out number one probably i've seen

388
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:53,340
some of the video and some of the

389
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:54,840
pictures you took it looks like an

390
00:17:59,360 --> 00:17:57,690
extraordinary trip to take on the back

391
00:18:01,910 --> 00:17:59,370
of a motorbike all the fun of a lot of

392
00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:01,920
light better still yeah as a rather

393
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,630
didn't think to do really I mean this is

394
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:06,000
wet and cold unpleasant or is very high

395
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:08,910
Oh Kazakhstan the Sun was plus 40

396
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:10,410
degrees and he wearing black motorcycle

397
00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:13,260
clothing and then Siberia the Ottomans

398
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:15,080
you know zero degrees and it

399
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:17,690
and that was unpleasant now that we know

400
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:20,480
why we did it because it was some people

401
00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:22,130
go to the beach and barley you know

402
00:18:26,259 --> 00:18:23,809
that's very nice but that's what I did

403
00:18:28,149 --> 00:18:26,269
but now in your great adventure did you

404
00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:28,159
go anywhere near the czech republic by

405
00:18:32,649 --> 00:18:30,620
any chance no i didn't sorry about that

406
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:32,659
i know you he can be carved straight

407
00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:34,970
across to cut that one out now that's

408
00:18:38,649 --> 00:18:36,620
alright because i mentioned the czech

409
00:18:40,779 --> 00:18:38,659
republic because as I've been mentioning

410
00:18:44,919 --> 00:18:40,789
to my listeners i'm off there to a

411
00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:44,929
rather amazing looking convention

412
00:18:48,730 --> 00:18:47,870
conference academia film allah book and

413
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,740
we've been wondering how to pronounce

414
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:50,720
olomouc column which I can't help you

415
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:54,320
that I don't speak Czech oh well olo mo

416
00:18:59,980 --> 00:18:56,929
you see ya is how it's spelt but that's

417
00:19:01,840 --> 00:18:59,990
in chick and i'm not i'm sure i'll be

418
00:19:04,629 --> 00:19:01,850
corrected by the good folks there i do i

419
00:19:06,940 --> 00:19:04,639
but it folks if you actually on here's

420
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:06,950
something to do on YouTube have a search

421
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:11,210
for this place Oh L om oh you see and

422
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:13,490
what a wonderfully interesting town it

423
00:19:17,950 --> 00:19:15,610
is in the Czech Republic it looks like a

424
00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:17,960
university and lots of nightlife and

425
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,750
culture and wonderful streets with

426
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:22,880
modern trams I'm really looking forward

427
00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:27,110
to visiting it and those festival itself

428
00:19:33,490 --> 00:19:31,000
which is the 48th the 48th international

429
00:19:36,730 --> 00:19:33,500
event they have there look at what they

430
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:36,740
have mathematics with Fermat's Last

431
00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:39,919
Theorem pseudoscience and academic film

432
00:19:46,629 --> 00:19:43,190
fest again teaching of science through

433
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,639
film the UFOs will be discussed me I'll

434
00:19:49,509 --> 00:19:48,080
be there of course discussing water

435
00:19:52,889 --> 00:19:49,519
divining which is why we're in mid

436
00:19:55,389 --> 00:19:52,899
emitter this very weekend we've got

437
00:19:59,680 --> 00:19:55,399
vaccination issues coming up politics

438
00:20:06,009 --> 00:19:59,690
global warming games pc games folks have

439
00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:06,019
a look at the website it's wwa f0 c ZD

440
00:20:14,289 --> 00:20:12,200
or i could say c z CZ for Americans it

441
00:20:16,029 --> 00:20:14,299
looks like a fantastic trip more details

442
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:16,039
coming up on the skeptic zone in the

443
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:17,510
next couple of weeks and I'll try and

444
00:20:36,030 --> 00:20:18,400
convince

445
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:36,040
to come anyway now it's time for dr.

446
00:20:47,850 --> 00:20:45,150
the anti-vaccination movement is in the

447
00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:47,860
spotlight again last week the Australian

448
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:49,180
Competition and Consumer Commission

449
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:51,460
began civil proceedings against

450
00:20:55,470 --> 00:20:53,890
homeopathy plus a website that claimed

451
00:20:58,020 --> 00:20:55,480
that the whooping cough vaccine was

452
00:21:00,060 --> 00:20:58,030
ineffective and unreliable at the same

453
00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:00,070
time the Australian vaccination network

454
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:01,750
is fighting an order from the New South

455
00:21:05,660 --> 00:21:03,850
Wales Department of Fair Trading to

456
00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:05,670
change its name or risk being shut down

457
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:08,620
the department claims that since the avn

458
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:10,090
is a lobby group with a solely

459
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:12,370
anti-vaccination stance its name is

460
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,890
misleading dr. rachel Dunlop is a

461
00:21:18,990 --> 00:21:17,200
postdoctoral research fellow at UTS in

462
00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:19,000
the school of medical and molecular

463
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:21,700
Biosciences she says that the case

464
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:23,290
involving the a triple c and the

465
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:25,570
homeopathic website is unusual because

466
00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:27,190
it would normally be a matter for the

467
00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:29,680
Therapeutic Goods Administration but the

468
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:31,660
TGA doesn't have a lot of power to shut

469
00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:34,210
misleading websites down in fact the

470
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:36,100
website in question has been pursued by

471
00:21:39,930 --> 00:21:38,410
the TGA before I don't think that this

472
00:21:41,850 --> 00:21:39,940
is going to become a precedence where

473
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:41,860
the h CC does this stuff on a regular

474
00:21:46,650 --> 00:21:44,290
basis because they don't have the

475
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:46,660
resources and it's not really what

476
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:48,130
they're supposed to do it's not really

477
00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:49,900
their role their role is not necessarily

478
00:21:53,670 --> 00:21:51,430
in health claims that really is the role

479
00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:53,680
of the TGA so it really highlights the

480
00:21:58,980 --> 00:21:56,980
fact that the TGA needs to be over hold

481
00:22:00,720 --> 00:21:58,990
and we need to get new legislation in so

482
00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:00,730
that they can prosecute things like this

483
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:03,430
with respect to the avian being told to

484
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:04,930
change their name by the Department of

485
00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:06,850
Fair Trading this is a serious matter

486
00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:09,790
this is not a trivial matter and also I

487
00:22:13,860 --> 00:22:11,560
think this is a thin and end of the

488
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,870
wedge for the avian this is something

489
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:15,760
that the Department of Fair Trading have

490
00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:17,260
gone in with but I think they have a lot

491
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:19,780
more of their sleeves I think they're

492
00:22:23,090 --> 00:22:21,010
pretty determined to see this

493
00:22:25,530 --> 00:22:23,100
organization being pulled into line

494
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:25,540
getting your children vaccinated is not

495
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:27,790
compulsory in Australia and some parents

496
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:30,640
still opt out associate professor Julie

497
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:32,200
Liske at the School of Public

498
00:22:36,419 --> 00:22:34,570
at the University of Sydney says that

499
00:22:38,009 --> 00:22:36,429
the majority of Australian parents do

500
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:38,019
get their children vaccinated and

501
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:39,970
despite the number being low in some

502
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:42,070
areas it has not decreased over the last

503
00:22:47,310 --> 00:22:44,470
10 years the key to keeping these

504
00:22:51,870 --> 00:22:47,320
numbers healthy is good communication we

505
00:22:54,509 --> 00:22:51,880
have to be very vigilant about trends in

506
00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:54,519
declining confidence in vaccines at the

507
00:22:58,799 --> 00:22:56,500
moment having about 2% of parents who

508
00:23:01,470 --> 00:22:58,809
actively refuse vaccinations we can't

509
00:23:03,539 --> 00:23:01,480
afford for that group to grow in that

510
00:23:05,639 --> 00:23:03,549
group growth we will lose her immunity

511
00:23:09,620 --> 00:23:05,649
and we will get more outbreaks and

512
00:23:13,289 --> 00:23:09,630
epidemics so it is very important that

513
00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:13,299
government prioritize good communication

514
00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:15,940
and that is not just about delivering

515
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:18,340
information to people in that one-way

516
00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:21,370
process associate professor Liske says

517
00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:23,320
that the anti-vaccination movement is as

518
00:23:28,740 --> 00:23:25,929
old as vaccines themselves and it's not

519
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:28,750
going away parents can get confused when

520
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:30,130
they find too much conflicting

521
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:33,929
information I think it's difficult when

522
00:23:39,870 --> 00:23:37,570
parents are looking for information and

523
00:23:41,730 --> 00:23:39,880
they feel like you're either getting a

524
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:41,740
really anti-vaccine stuff or the really

525
00:23:45,930 --> 00:23:43,809
probe actually in sort of propaganda

526
00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:45,940
which wants to sweep the risks under the

527
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:48,460
carpet the really good quality

528
00:23:54,659 --> 00:23:51,250
information will well own up to the fact

529
00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:54,669
that there are some risks there the

530
00:24:00,600 --> 00:23:56,769
serious side effects of vaccinations are

531
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:00,610
quite rare and overalls of benefits of

532
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:03,760
vaccinations far outweigh their risk but

533
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:05,590
it's still important to acknowledge

534
00:24:12,629 --> 00:24:08,799
those risks to give people a sense of

535
00:24:15,299 --> 00:24:12,639
how big they are what they are so that

536
00:24:17,610 --> 00:24:15,309
people who are concerned can sort of get

537
00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:17,620
a sensitive we have a boundaries of

538
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:20,470
those risks liar Peter Budaj is a member

539
00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:22,570
of the organization Australian skeptics

540
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:24,429
and has his own website where he

541
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:25,870
challenges misinformation and

542
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:28,090
pseudoscience on the internet he is

543
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:29,980
passionate about combating false claims

544
00:24:35,519 --> 00:24:31,620
made by the anti-vaccination movement

545
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:35,529
that there is an enormous movement which

546
00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:38,320
opposes the idea the doctors are good

547
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:40,990
people that is you know doctors are

548
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:42,450
apparently only and if the money

549
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:44,529
vaccines are only developed to make

550
00:24:48,610 --> 00:24:46,010
billions of dollars for pharmacy

551
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:48,620
companies well I've always taken the

552
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:50,810
view that I'm not trying never going to

553
00:24:55,030 --> 00:24:52,730
convince a true believer my job is to

554
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:55,040
expose them to the fence-sitters so

555
00:25:00,370 --> 00:24:57,410
people can actually make a choice and

556
00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:00,380
either I get that part in the collection

557
00:25:02,860 --> 00:25:01,550
of hate mail I get from people telling

558
00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:02,870
me on the dreadful person and I should

559
00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:06,380
die I I get quite humid number of emails

560
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:08,600
and people who say thank you because a

561
00:25:12,340 --> 00:25:10,130
lot of bullet aware or I'll get a little

562
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:12,350
bit of information from somebody and go

563
00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:14,570
looking on the internet and what they

564
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,460
found is someone actually pointing out

565
00:25:19,780 --> 00:25:18,320
the flaws the things that the

566
00:25:22,810 --> 00:25:19,790
anti-vaccination people say that aren't

567
00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:22,820
true and that points from back to

568
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:23,900
website all that's going to look at the

569
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:26,810
science can I can really can't believe

570
00:25:31,420 --> 00:25:29,690
my doctor but for parents the issue can

571
00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:31,430
be about a conflict between social

572
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:33,460
responsibility and individual rights

573
00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:36,650
Kate tracy has a 10 month old child and

574
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,030
is a holistic practitioner in

575
00:25:42,610 --> 00:25:40,640
alternative medicine she says she is

576
00:25:44,770 --> 00:25:42,620
resistant to get her baby vaccinated but

577
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:44,780
not one hundred percent against it it's

578
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:46,570
a very complicated argument on that

579
00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:49,970
position because argument for

580
00:25:56,490 --> 00:25:53,240
vaccination is sure one in a hundred

581
00:26:00,370 --> 00:25:56,500
thousand people may have a negative

582
00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:00,380
response to vaccination you know which

583
00:26:05,860 --> 00:26:02,990
could could stab into them for the rest

584
00:26:09,670 --> 00:26:05,870
of their lives but for the good of

585
00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:09,680
society we get vaccinated so it is a

586
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:12,020
it's a social thing it's not an

587
00:26:16,690 --> 00:26:14,720
individual thing but we live in a place

588
00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:16,700
where we have individual rights you know

589
00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:19,400
we have autonomy medical economy we

590
00:26:24,970 --> 00:26:20,780
don't have to do what the Western

591
00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:24,980
medical convention dictates yeah I just

592
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:27,680
feel of what I've read that it's

593
00:26:33,490 --> 00:26:31,520
possibly and maybe an outdated mode of

594
00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:33,500
protecting the immune system like we

595
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:35,270
have many other ways to strengthen the

596
00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:37,850
immune system and for children who grow

597
00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:39,920
up unvaccinated the responses from other

598
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:42,470
people can strike a real nerve Hannah

599
00:26:46,150 --> 00:26:44,120
Bell Nick's mother decided not to

600
00:26:48,580 --> 00:26:46,160
vaccinate her or her sister as children

601
00:26:51,130 --> 00:26:48,590
she says that the negative comments from

602
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:51,140
strangers can be surprising it isn't an

603
00:26:57,660 --> 00:26:54,710
issue in my life at all until it comes

604
00:27:00,990 --> 00:26:57,670
up saying conversation I mention it and

605
00:27:03,270 --> 00:27:01,000
people have very strong views about it

606
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:03,280
and often they see me as some as somehow

607
00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:10,000
harmful to society and that I am making

608
00:27:17,580 --> 00:27:14,560
in some ways a in moral decision to be

609
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:17,590
part of society and not be vaccinated

610
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:19,930
the way everyone else is Hannah says

611
00:27:23,670 --> 00:27:21,730
she's choosing not to get vaccinations

612
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:23,680
herself as an adult but will vaccinate

613
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:26,530
her future children so no I wouldn't be

614
00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:29,500
continuing it on but I don't want to be

615
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:31,900
vaccinated as an adult and and I feel

616
00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:34,510
like people should be allowed to choose

617
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:35,950
whether to vaccinate their children or

618
00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:38,110
not when it is an informed decision and

619
00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:40,980
it's likely that if I were to get a

620
00:27:45,270 --> 00:27:43,240
disease that other people that said

621
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:45,280
before I could I can treat that I can be

622
00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:47,410
treated so why is it that some people

623
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:49,660
reject vaccines that were developed to

624
00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:52,390
save lives associate professor Liske

625
00:27:56,490 --> 00:27:54,580
says that there was a time when science

626
00:27:58,890 --> 00:27:56,500
and technology were imbued with a lot of

627
00:28:01,470 --> 00:27:58,900
hope and promise but not everybody is so

628
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:01,480
trusting anymore so you know there are

629
00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:03,730
those occasional that spectacular

630
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:05,980
failures of medicine like a Salida might

631
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:08,770
like x-raying the feet of all children

632
00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:12,610
to check their shoe sizes and and then

633
00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:14,740
really realizing that that those

634
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:16,870
practice was we're actually dangerous

635
00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:20,170
and needed to be changed and I think the

636
00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:23,640
anti-vaccine messaging and certainly the

637
00:28:30,510 --> 00:28:26,560
people who feel mistrust in vaccines or

638
00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:30,520
other medical technologies locate their

639
00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:34,900
concerns within those wider problems

640
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:38,740
that are genuine issues around the

641
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:41,760
occasional failures of medicine and

642
00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:44,080
pharmaceuticals there's also this

643
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,190
tendency to compute into consumerism in

644
00:28:53,010 --> 00:28:49,840
health care and we call it health is

645
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:53,020
impaired people are very consciously

646
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,510
thinking about their health care choices

647
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:57,520
and being much more involved in them

648
00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:01,360
which is a good team and vaccination you

649
00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:03,070
know gets brought into that kind of

650
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:06,160
discussion or discourse and so when you

651
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:08,410
hear about people moms in particular

652
00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:10,390
saying look I want to know I want to

653
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:11,470
look into this

654
00:29:17,460 --> 00:29:14,080
sure that I'm making the right decision

655
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:17,470
for my child that's a mom who is wanting

656
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:20,799
to do the best by her child and is also

657
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:24,490
concerned to not just take what's what's

658
00:29:30,510 --> 00:29:27,760
an even and a sort of backlash against

659
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:30,520
paternalistic medicine dr. Dunlop says

660
00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:32,409
that the reasons lie in the perceptions

661
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:34,840
of risk and the emotions surrounding it

662
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:37,750
people are unable to really rationalize

663
00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:40,720
risk anymore so I think with vaccination

664
00:29:44,430 --> 00:29:42,940
in particular because we don't see the

665
00:29:45,870 --> 00:29:44,440
disease's anymore because we're not

666
00:29:48,990 --> 00:29:45,880
going to school and we're seeing kids

667
00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:49,000
with polio in calipers or kids dropping

668
00:29:54,539 --> 00:29:52,870
dead from tuberculosis the risk of the

669
00:29:56,940 --> 00:29:54,549
side effects of vaccination is now

670
00:29:59,700 --> 00:29:56,950
elevated in people's minds because we

671
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,710
don't have much of a concept of the risk

672
00:30:05,730 --> 00:30:02,559
of the disease anymore the other issue I

673
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:05,740
think is that if your child is our in a

674
00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:08,049
playground or at primary school and they

675
00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:11,409
catch a bacteria like pertussis and they

676
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:13,240
get sick that's a horrible thing to

677
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:15,010
happen but that's nothing that you were

678
00:30:19,289 --> 00:30:17,289
involved in it wasn't your fault the

679
00:30:21,659 --> 00:30:19,299
bacteria came along you keep gothic

680
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:21,669
that's fine if you take your child to a

681
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:23,710
doctor and you agree to a medical

682
00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:25,870
procedure which is a vaccination and

683
00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:28,150
they are one in a million who gets a

684
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:30,580
side effect and or bad adverse event

685
00:30:34,649 --> 00:30:32,710
then you're directly responsible for

686
00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:34,659
causing your child to be sick so all

687
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:36,070
that stuff is going on in people's heads

688
00:30:42,390 --> 00:30:38,350
and we're influenced by that really

689
00:30:45,149 --> 00:30:42,400
easily and Sciences is cold and it's you

690
00:30:48,090 --> 00:30:45,159
know full of maths and graphs it's not

691
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:48,100
an emotional response people are driven

692
00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:50,650
emotionally so when you see stories that

693
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:51,820
are on the internet whether they're true

694
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:53,950
or not that a child had a vaccination

695
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:56,110
and had an adverse event and now has

696
00:31:00,570 --> 00:30:58,450
autism which is not actually a side

697
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:00,580
effect of vaccinations but that stuff is

698
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:02,710
out there that sticks in people's heads

699
00:31:16,390 --> 00:31:05,530
and it's like ringing a bell you can't

700
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:20,150
hi this is scary papi i am ross Fletcher

701
00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:22,650
okay Ross hey we're from a podcast

702
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,100
called oh no Ross and Carrie we find out

703
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:27,840
what happens when you show up and ask

704
00:31:31,460 --> 00:31:29,220
questions we've hung out with the

705
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:31,470
Cabalists the Mormons we've gone and

706
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:34,050
gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we

707
00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:36,450
show up so you don't have to so find out

708
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,100
where we're going next we'll even have

709
00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:40,200
special episodes where we have famous

710
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:42,630
guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity

711
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:44,610
you heard that awesome theme music he

712
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:46,590
wrote that you should come visit us at

713
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:50,820
Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com slash

714
00:31:57,860 --> 00:31:53,610
on rack what the hell's honor a cross Oh

715
00:32:08,940 --> 00:31:57,870
in RAC oh no Ross and Carrie that's our

716
00:32:13,210 --> 00:32:11,470
well we're here at Sydney's skeptics in

717
00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:13,220
the pub and again it's been another full

718
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:17,000
house Richard Saunders here being mean I

719
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:19,250
im mean arts and ankles may not can't be

720
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,050
with us may not normally the guy running

721
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:23,840
around here skeptics in the pub asking

722
00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:25,430
the big questions I'm with Richard hello

723
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:28,070
Richard could Oprah two got into it to

724
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:29,390
see you here again on skeptics in the

725
00:32:34,290 --> 00:32:32,330
pub the big question this week is do you

726
00:32:36,940 --> 00:32:34,300
think that human society will eventually

727
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:36,950
turn to the side of science and reason

728
00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:39,110
and it's so how long do you think that

729
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:42,950
will take oh dear we've got different

730
00:32:50,110 --> 00:32:46,190
human populations of all via different

731
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:50,120
rights and that I think probably sooner

732
00:32:55,810 --> 00:32:53,510
with the western side of things but with

733
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:55,820
the developing world that there's still

734
00:33:01,630 --> 00:32:57,410
a little bit too much religious

735
00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:01,640
influence and I don't know I mean I

736
00:33:07,930 --> 00:33:04,100
don't know seems to be a pretty popular

737
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:07,940
answer over here so yeah I'm and it it

738
00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:11,510
depends on here there we go that's a

739
00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:13,460
Buddhist answer is I think I'm gonna get

740
00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:16,630
ya it's a tricky question Richard

741
00:33:21,610 --> 00:33:19,640
yes the mad with that with a very

742
00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:21,620
fluorescent orange microphone

743
00:33:24,820 --> 00:33:23,750
approaching rapidly become working fine

744
00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:24,830
is it though I didn't know there was a

745
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:26,660
microphone I thought which it was just

746
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:28,340
never won something out of Fraggle Rock

747
00:33:33,010 --> 00:33:30,710
actually it's the only microphone cover

748
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:33,020
i had yes folks you know that voice so

749
00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:35,120
well it's Joanne better move from

750
00:33:39,730 --> 00:33:37,580
reality by tell a joke and Richard I

751
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:39,740
really must do reality bites again it's

752
00:33:43,930 --> 00:33:42,440
been ages yes please do well I promise

753
00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:43,940
but if you know we're here it skeptics

754
00:33:46,810 --> 00:33:44,900
in the public course and the big

755
00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:46,820
question tonight the big question with

756
00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:48,920
two big questions is do you think that

757
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:51,260
human society as a whole will eventually

758
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:52,850
turn to the side of science and reason

759
00:34:01,210 --> 00:33:55,320
and if so alone

760
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:01,220
that might take a short answer no i

761
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:05,310
don't oh I don't I don't think so human

762
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:06,750
society ever will because we're not

763
00:34:14,780 --> 00:34:10,050
built that way the only way we can do it

764
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,790
is evolved it out of ourselves so I

765
00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:16,800
think I think all we can do is just sort

766
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:18,540
of keep chipping away as best we can

767
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:20,250
focus on the things that are really

768
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:23,460
important but no I don't think it'll

769
00:34:28,970 --> 00:34:26,610
ever really happen interesting I'm sorry

770
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,980
to be so pessimistic no interesting you

771
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:30,960
can see Tim mendham the editor of the

772
00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:32,400
skeptic magazine and we're looking

773
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:33,870
forward to the next issue coming out

774
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:36,510
soon in about a week's time what are

775
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:38,580
some of the topics so readers can look

776
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:40,050
forward to well we got a lot of topical

777
00:34:43,850 --> 00:34:41,970
special feature this time on Lord law

778
00:34:47,410 --> 00:34:43,860
and skepticism including an anonymous

779
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:47,420
article from a secret service person

780
00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:49,650
we're talking about how they apply

781
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:51,990
skepticism in that profession radical

782
00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:54,690
the law in medicine how doctors and what

783
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:55,950
they can actually do with people who

784
00:35:00,650 --> 00:34:58,530
want strange things have a good number

785
00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:00,660
of other articles usual sort of weird

786
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:02,190
and wonderful sort of wacky sort of

787
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:04,740
selection we've got cargo cults and

788
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:06,180
we've got what else we got we've got

789
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:09,900
various real cults and far too many

790
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:10,920
things to remember off the top my head

791
00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:13,290
is this late in the evening well I'm

792
00:35:16,820 --> 00:35:15,060
actually rather excited to get the next

793
00:35:19,610 --> 00:35:16,830
day I'm issue of the magazine because I

794
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:19,620
finally got myself an ipad and I plan on

795
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:22,020
reading it on my lovely new I

796
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:23,850
did you split the question that we will

797
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:26,010
human beings ever be totally rational

798
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:28,110
yes and if so how long will it do you

799
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,040
think it's going to take centuries

800
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:31,680
decades millennium I think next Tuesday

801
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:34,350
looks next Tuesday if you're talking all

802
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,970
of them no actually I think it's getting

803
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:37,440
better look at the number of people who

804
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:40,050
were actually have no religion it's

805
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:42,450
growing they might have no religion but

806
00:35:46,340 --> 00:35:44,310
they still there are some other areas

807
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:46,350
where they can still be irrational I'm

808
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,730
just running in the corners actually

809
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:49,680
everywhere just corner them down paint

810
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:51,300
them in the corners and eventually now

811
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,530
there'll always be people who believe

812
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:54,180
weird things and as soon as your block

813
00:35:58,010 --> 00:35:55,680
off one thing the people turn to

814
00:35:59,570 --> 00:35:58,020
something else it's a supreme art will

815
00:36:01,460 --> 00:35:59,580
be resilient is the belief that people

816
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:01,470
have when something is a dead end

817
00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:03,690
they'll move on to something else don't

818
00:36:08,420 --> 00:36:05,430
you think the first things we need to do

819
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:08,430
to actually really change things is to

820
00:36:14,030 --> 00:36:09,540
make it part of our political

821
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:14,040
conversation and also to to recognize

822
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:17,040
that we're all like that every single

823
00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:20,250
one of us to the most die-hard skeptic

824
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:23,380
we have our irrational bits

825
00:36:26,220 --> 00:36:25,240
and until we actually recognize that I

826
00:36:28,829 --> 00:36:26,230
think it's going to be pretty hard to

827
00:36:32,279 --> 00:36:28,839
change one thing you irrational Jones oh

828
00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:32,289
absolutely i find that happily my

829
00:36:38,249 --> 00:36:36,940
husband is right there i could ask so

830
00:36:40,589 --> 00:36:38,259
that's great thank you thank you Jim and

831
00:36:42,509 --> 00:36:40,599
yes the skeptic magazine of course one

832
00:36:46,799 --> 00:36:42,519
of the finest skeptical journals in the

833
00:36:49,279 --> 00:36:46,809
world www.skype.com data you subscribe

834
00:36:52,829 --> 00:36:49,289
online thank you very much you should

835
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:52,839
shame green up from roberta cod right

836
00:36:57,329 --> 00:36:55,089
calm that's it now what is robot out for

837
00:36:59,519 --> 00:36:57,339
those skeptics on listeners who seek of

838
00:37:01,650 --> 00:36:59,529
remember hearing about it around so it's

839
00:37:03,539 --> 00:37:01,660
a browser extension which basically

840
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,549
alerts you whenever a page that you're

841
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:06,160
reading has been rebutted elsewhere on

842
00:37:11,130 --> 00:37:08,470
the internet so yeah robotic connects

843
00:37:12,569 --> 00:37:11,140
claims to rebuttals gives you the alert

844
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:12,579
and allows you to submit your own

845
00:37:16,410 --> 00:37:14,529
rebuttals if you find one its eyes and

846
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:16,420
in system yet I have to build it in

847
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:18,490
valuable valuable website now the

848
00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:21,130
question that's going around tonight two

849
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:22,950
questions really do you think that human

850
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:25,630
society as a whole will ever turn more

851
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:29,890
or less to science in reason if so how

852
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:30,970
long do you think that might take

853
00:37:37,710 --> 00:37:35,410
decades centuries I do think we will but

854
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:37,720
I'm one of those crazy followers of the

855
00:37:42,089 --> 00:37:39,970
works of Ray Kurzweil and basically

856
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:42,099
believe in one form or another that the

857
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:44,650
singularity is coming so I think it's

858
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:45,910
inevitable the technology will

859
00:37:52,410 --> 00:37:49,710
increasingly become a part of us we will

860
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:52,420
augment our minds our brains will get

861
00:37:58,890 --> 00:37:55,740
closer and closer to this permanent

862
00:38:00,809 --> 00:37:58,900
interactive connection with the internet

863
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:00,819
and we will augment not only our

864
00:38:04,620 --> 00:38:02,980
connection to it to the the breadth of

865
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:04,630
human knowledge but also our ability to

866
00:38:10,109 --> 00:38:06,880
think so we will end up making ourselves

867
00:38:12,269 --> 00:38:10,119
so logical and rational that will feel

868
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:12,279
stupid to do anything but apply that

869
00:38:15,569 --> 00:38:14,529
rationality and how long I think that'll

870
00:38:17,830 --> 00:38:15,579
take I think it would be less than a

871
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:17,840
hundred years Wow

872
00:38:20,830 --> 00:38:19,610
I must admit when somebody put this

873
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,840
question to me a very good friend of

874
00:38:25,390 --> 00:38:22,400
mine by the name of Philip us coffee

875
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:25,400
hello Philip you listening i agreed that

876
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:27,500
i thought yeah of n chua lee i think we

877
00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:29,570
will but I gave it about two centuries

878
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:32,870
yeah I think um and of course I this all

879
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:36,320
has to be tempered with based on

880
00:38:40,210 --> 00:38:38,300
believing reycarts all sort of arguments

881
00:38:42,850 --> 00:38:40,220
and there's lots of there's a lot to

882
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:42,860
criticisms of them but this is my

883
00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:45,650
current belief happy to be challenged on

884
00:38:52,810 --> 00:38:50,630
it there was another thing it's also

885
00:38:55,330 --> 00:38:52,820
even in that that's actually chances

886
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:55,340
either won't be everyone it may actually

887
00:38:59,260 --> 00:38:57,290
be the case you will always get the the

888
00:39:02,290 --> 00:38:59,270
people that refuse technology and and

889
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,300
will live in a natural state there will

890
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:04,880
be the naturals so who knows you know

891
00:39:10,060 --> 00:39:07,250
I'm sorry I'm really reminded of a brave

892
00:39:12,670 --> 00:39:10,070
new world now yeah it may be a look like

893
00:39:14,830 --> 00:39:12,680
that he's got a simple simons savage and

894
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:14,840
i haven't read it for many years I've

895
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:22,030
well things are quieting down a little

896
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,430
bit now and I found Jessica singer a

897
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:26,720
secretary of Australian skeptics hello

898
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:28,730
Jessica hey Richard how are you going

899
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:31,930
I'm sorry well I can hardly believe it

900
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:35,510
I'm skeptical about our where I am now

901
00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:37,130
the questions now it's sort of like two

902
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:40,040
questions in one do you think the human

903
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:43,430
society will ever generally or on the

904
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,950
whole turn to sign some reason and if so

905
00:39:50,980 --> 00:39:48,160
how long do you think that might take ah

906
00:39:52,930 --> 00:39:50,990
well I think my answer to the first

907
00:39:55,710 --> 00:39:52,940
question sort of renders the second

908
00:39:58,540 --> 00:39:55,720
question obsolete oh I don't think

909
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,550
unfortunately I don't think human

910
00:40:03,070 --> 00:40:00,560
society is going to turn to science and

911
00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:03,080
reason I I actually don't think we're

912
00:40:07,170 --> 00:40:05,540
made that way and I think somebody like

913
00:40:09,059 --> 00:40:07,180
Christie Wilson

914
00:40:11,549 --> 00:40:09,069
who you've no doubt had on the zone

915
00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:11,559
before oh yes she's our roving reporter

916
00:40:16,020 --> 00:40:13,660
and there you go and she's doing a lot

917
00:40:17,819 --> 00:40:16,030
of work in this area and you know why

918
00:40:21,329 --> 00:40:17,829
people believe things and why people

919
00:40:24,270 --> 00:40:21,339
believe weird things and yeah I think I

920
00:40:26,339 --> 00:40:24,280
think what's interesting is you know why

921
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:26,349
humans have this tendency and why we

922
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:30,010
made that way and and yo so I'm very

923
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:33,010
interested in her work but I don't think

924
00:40:39,210 --> 00:40:35,890
there's a fantastic prospect for

925
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:39,220
Humanity generally I Deary Deary Deary

926
00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:41,890
me I know it doesn't sound depressing

927
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:43,990
that hey you know life is fun and you

928
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:46,240
can have a great a great time along the

929
00:40:51,210 --> 00:40:48,760
way and I do and skeptics know how to

930
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,220
party we do it's interesting Jesse

931
00:40:54,660 --> 00:40:52,720
because I asked the same question to

932
00:40:57,630 --> 00:40:54,670
some people tonight including Joe

933
00:41:00,450 --> 00:40:57,640
minimal now the interesting thing is the

934
00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:00,460
females i asked give the pessimistic ad

935
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:02,079
said the male's give the optimistic

936
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:06,010
answer oh that's actually so far yeah

937
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:07,720
that's really interesting maybe Chrissy

938
00:41:13,799 --> 00:41:10,170
Wilson should have a look at that mmm

939
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:13,809
there's a thought yeah well that that's

940
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:15,760
really interesting and I could not I

941
00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:18,160
could not even begin to speculate why

942
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:20,740
that would be it's a very small sample

943
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:23,730
size this is true the small sample size

944
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:26,760
hardly representative and not

945
00:41:33,089 --> 00:41:30,609
statistically significant I am forced to

946
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:33,099
agree I'd better ask somebody else good

947
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:36,640
one see you later and the question

948
00:41:43,170 --> 00:41:39,660
tonight of course is do you think that

949
00:41:44,789 --> 00:41:43,180
someday human society as a whole will

950
00:41:47,549 --> 00:41:44,799
turn to the side of science and reason

951
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:47,559
and if so how long do you think that

952
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:48,780
would take

953
00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:50,490
I learnt expected to happen in a hurry

954
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:52,260
because I think people have an instinct

955
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:54,450
to find patterns where there aren't any

956
00:42:00,350 --> 00:41:57,000
patterns and do whatever will make it

957
00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:00,360
you know require less effort to think so

958
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:02,310
I think people always want easy answers

959
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:04,710
prefer something's lean mystical rather

960
00:42:09,530 --> 00:42:06,410
than things to be determined through

961
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:09,540
deduction and very careful analysis

962
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:11,610
because that requires effort so I think

963
00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:13,380
it takes an active effort to educate

964
00:42:17,780 --> 00:42:15,350
people to think scientifically

965
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:17,790
analytically to look for evidence for

966
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:19,730
things such to think critically and

967
00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:23,370
based on that I think there are reasons

968
00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:25,020
why humans evolved to draw conclusions

969
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:26,940
quickly back when we were you know

970
00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:29,760
living you know like cavemen in the wild

971
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:31,980
you know yet to adapt to threats of wild

972
00:42:37,610 --> 00:42:35,700
animals you know and those instincts and

973
00:42:39,380 --> 00:42:37,620
take a while to go away I don't know

974
00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:39,390
whether they'll go away from evolutional

975
00:42:42,980 --> 00:42:40,620
because we'll have an education system

976
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:42,990
that instills them is so thoroughly from

977
00:42:48,740 --> 00:42:47,010
a young age but yeah I think I I reckon

978
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:48,750
lino centuries I'm not going to be an

979
00:42:58,070 --> 00:42:51,920
optimist it's um it'll be a struggle

980
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:58,080
good answer thank you a gauge boson yes

981
00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:00,480
but sometimes you get three gluons

982
00:43:03,890 --> 00:43:01,830
holding three quarks together then

983
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:03,900
you've got a present or a neutron folks

984
00:43:07,790 --> 00:43:05,910
that the conversations that skeptics in

985
00:43:09,590 --> 00:43:07,800
the pub just boggled my mind it's ian

986
00:43:11,390 --> 00:43:09,600
Bryce the chief investigator from

987
00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:11,400
destroying skeptics Ian what are you

988
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:14,280
raving it I'm talking about our entry in

989
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:18,930
the Mardi Gras 2013 well and you got

990
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:20,400
some photographs there can you just

991
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,410
throw it is can you briefly explain what

992
00:43:26,060 --> 00:43:24,480
was the float who was the float and what

993
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:26,070
all about okay the float was called the

994
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,290
Higgs boson the godless particle because

995
00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:30,240
the haha of course the media dubbed it

996
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,430
the god particle but atheists know it's

997
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:34,560
the godless particle and the aim was to

998
00:43:38,349 --> 00:43:36,330
celebrate the discovery of the decade

999
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:38,359
the scientific discovery of the decade

1000
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:42,000
and also we color and motion involved

1001
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:43,590
each person participating was an

1002
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:45,330
elementary particle of quark or

1003
00:43:50,590 --> 00:43:47,730
electronic we're on or photon on so

1004
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:50,600
forth and also they form relationships

1005
00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:54,000
as in human relationships so during the

1006
00:43:57,380 --> 00:43:55,560
choreography the particles joined

1007
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:57,390
together in ones and twos and threes

1008
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,240
much like humans do mixed couples and

1009
00:44:03,980 --> 00:44:02,400
opposite couples and same couples and

1010
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:03,990
triples and so forth so we drew

1011
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:06,330
parallels between the theme of the Mardi

1012
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:08,250
Gras which is all the different sexual

1013
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:10,140
orientations and the way elementary

1014
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,850
particles relate I think the audience

1015
00:44:15,950 --> 00:44:14,040
loved that and it looks it looks

1016
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,960
spectacular you've got lots of lanterns

1017
00:44:20,420 --> 00:44:18,480
and people with giant sort of plastic

1018
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:20,430
slinkies and marching along and there

1019
00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:22,260
there are you sitting up on the back of

1020
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:24,180
a truck directing the action yes I was

1021
00:44:30,020 --> 00:44:26,130
the Higgs boson I was giving directions

1022
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:30,030
to the both the audience from the sides

1023
00:44:33,380 --> 00:44:31,619
who wanted to know what was going on and

1024
00:44:34,670 --> 00:44:33,390
also to the dancers who wanted to know

1025
00:44:36,859 --> 00:44:34,680
which part of the choreography was

1026
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:36,869
coming next so I was holding up cue

1027
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:39,000
cards and making announcements now he in

1028
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:41,730
something completely different to what

1029
00:44:45,950 --> 00:44:43,890
we've been discussing tonight I happen

1030
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:45,960
to notice you told me and I've known

1031
00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:48,810
your dog for many years safi sapphire

1032
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:50,540
sapphire

1033
00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:54,510
she is an elderly dog who has been going

1034
00:44:58,730 --> 00:44:56,940
blind and was blind for a few years but

1035
00:45:01,940 --> 00:44:58,740
Thank You science Thank You science

1036
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:01,950
she's can now see you again yes indeed

1037
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:04,050
she got cataracts in both eyes and was

1038
00:45:09,380 --> 00:45:07,770
totally blind for about a year and lost

1039
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:09,390
a lot of interest in life but just

1040
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:11,490
recently science to the rescue she's had

1041
00:45:16,340 --> 00:45:13,590
one eye out and one knew I were at least

1042
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:16,350
one new lens in there I and she's

1043
00:45:21,050 --> 00:45:18,060
responded quite strange you came

1044
00:45:22,490 --> 00:45:21,060
hyperactive running around looking left

1045
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,500
and right and examining everything

1046
00:45:26,330 --> 00:45:24,480
obviously enjoying life a lot more can

1047
00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:26,340
run now because a blind dog can't run

1048
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,590
because going to bump into things and

1049
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:30,240
strangely enough her appetite has

1050
00:45:34,580 --> 00:45:32,130
doubled which we can only put down to

1051
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,590
the extra exercise she's getting an

1052
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:37,200
extra interest in life such as it's

1053
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:38,640
really been quite wonderful and just

1054
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:40,440
shows you the wonders of science that's

1055
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:42,570
great because i know that dog is a

1056
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:44,370
lovely dog you've had for many years and

1057
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:46,890
to think that now it can see again after

1058
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:48,570
a couple of years of blindness is just

1059
00:45:52,580 --> 00:45:51,090
just fantastic yes it certainly is she

1060
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:52,590
probably thinks well that was a bloody

1061
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:00,650
Kathy marks journalists know what do you

1062
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:03,180
think my brain is working very slowly

1063
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:04,890
tonight because I've just been I hope

1064
00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:05,870
another day off for about three weeks

1065
00:46:09,530 --> 00:46:08,340
but off the top of my head I would say

1066
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:09,540
no I don't think that they will

1067
00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:10,530
eventually turn slanting rays

1068
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:12,630
unfortunately I just I just don't I feel

1069
00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:14,010
more am I think that more and more

1070
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:16,590
people are attracted to mumbo-jumbo you

1071
00:46:21,020 --> 00:46:18,780
know pseudoscience myths all that

1072
00:46:22,690 --> 00:46:21,030
rubbish why because probably turning

1073
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:22,700
away from religion and you know

1074
00:46:27,740 --> 00:46:25,410
world-changing globalization blah blah

1075
00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:27,750
bar and they see this sort of stuff for

1076
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:28,950
something to cling onto now that's just

1077
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:32,190
a very kind of you know you feel

1078
00:46:36,089 --> 00:46:33,690
response from me but

1079
00:46:37,259 --> 00:46:36,099
it's interesting I've got some very

1080
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:37,269
interesting answers to that question

1081
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,480
when it was asked of me I answered more

1082
00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:42,160
or less in the positive that's what I

1083
00:46:45,569 --> 00:46:43,660
thought it might take a couple centuries

1084
00:46:48,690 --> 00:46:45,579
you thought it might take a couple of

1085
00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:48,700
centuries oh I just call it that far

1086
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:51,849
ahead it is difficult in this difficult

1087
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,930
oh it's almost it's almost closing time

1088
00:47:00,960 --> 00:46:58,000
at the pub there's a few scrag leurs and

1089
00:47:04,799 --> 00:47:00,970
hangers-on hello hi and who do we have

1090
00:47:07,230 --> 00:47:04,809
here I'm Emma Marcum from the UK just

1091
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:07,240
visiting um I'm actually over here

1092
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:09,760
working for a year excellent having a

1093
00:47:15,089 --> 00:47:12,160
good time at home yes it's it's really

1094
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:15,099
amazing i'm loving sydney oh that's so

1095
00:47:20,029 --> 00:47:17,920
nice to hear and what brings you out

1096
00:47:22,349 --> 00:47:20,039
here what are you working at so

1097
00:47:24,420 --> 00:47:22,359
originally my motivation for coming here

1098
00:47:27,079 --> 00:47:24,430
is I was working in clinical trials in

1099
00:47:29,579 --> 00:47:27,089
the UK and I was starting getting a bit

1100
00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:29,589
disillusioned by it all and wanted to

1101
00:47:34,349 --> 00:47:31,720
try something new and I i understood

1102
00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:34,359
that Australia is an exciting place for

1103
00:47:40,349 --> 00:47:38,140
scientists and you're not experienced

1104
00:47:42,089 --> 00:47:40,359
the same same same kind of a recession

1105
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:42,099
that Europe is in at the moment so I

1106
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:43,930
thought I should come out here for new

1107
00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:46,630
opportunities really what a great idea

1108
00:47:50,339 --> 00:47:48,190
what there you are folks there's the

1109
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:50,349
word come out to Australia for new

1110
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,970
opportunities now why you're here and

1111
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:53,680
I'm so pleased to see you at skeptics in

1112
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:54,640
the pub and I hope you've had a good

1113
00:47:58,920 --> 00:47:56,890
time yes it's been amazing it's kind of

1114
00:48:01,890 --> 00:47:58,930
an interesting contrast between the

1115
00:48:05,759 --> 00:48:01,900
skeptics movement in the UK where it's a

1116
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,769
very casual in the pub and they do a

1117
00:48:08,999 --> 00:48:07,599
little presentation it's sort of very

1118
00:48:12,059 --> 00:48:09,009
interesting that you also include a

1119
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:12,069
dinner and I think the talks are sort of

1120
00:48:17,819 --> 00:48:16,329
more sort of based on Australian ideas

1121
00:48:19,319 --> 00:48:17,829
and current issues and I think that

1122
00:48:20,730 --> 00:48:19,329
that's really interesting to sort of get

1123
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:20,740
a better understanding of the country

1124
00:48:26,380 --> 00:48:23,890
and how skepticism works in Australia

1125
00:48:28,089 --> 00:48:26,390
delighted to hear now the question

1126
00:48:30,909 --> 00:48:28,099
tonight will sort of like two questions

1127
00:48:33,609 --> 00:48:30,919
in one do you think that human society

1128
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:33,619
in general will ever eventually turn the

1129
00:48:40,479 --> 00:48:36,559
science and reason and if so how long do

1130
00:48:42,729 --> 00:48:40,489
you think that might take I think that

1131
00:48:45,179 --> 00:48:42,739
there is certainly propensity to to move

1132
00:48:47,709 --> 00:48:45,189
towards reason especially when you

1133
00:48:50,529 --> 00:48:47,719
provide the facts and information and

1134
00:48:55,469 --> 00:48:50,539
education but also I think people are

1135
00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:55,479
easily deceived and led astray by

1136
00:48:59,739 --> 00:48:57,529
pseudoscience and things that seem to

1137
00:49:02,099 --> 00:48:59,749
add up but then really don't so I think

1138
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:02,109
it will take a long time the sin Leah a

1139
00:49:08,709 --> 00:49:05,569
movement towards more chicken reasoning

1140
00:49:10,959 --> 00:49:08,719
I definitely agree that there is we can

1141
00:49:13,689 --> 00:49:10,969
see that in the UK where now the latest

1142
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:13,699
census has indicated that twenty five

1143
00:49:17,919 --> 00:49:15,649
percent of the population don't believe

1144
00:49:19,509 --> 00:49:17,929
in any God or any religious figure so

1145
00:49:22,149 --> 00:49:19,519
that would indicate that sort of

1146
00:49:24,339 --> 00:49:22,159
everything is moving more to a logical

1147
00:49:26,049 --> 00:49:24,349
and reasoning basis and as science is

1148
00:49:29,019 --> 00:49:26,059
moving forward people are getting more

1149
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:29,029
educated in what is real and and what is

1150
00:49:34,269 --> 00:49:31,249
not and being able to explain what what

1151
00:49:36,009 --> 00:49:34,279
is it real recently you know things like

1152
00:49:38,139 --> 00:49:36,019
you know hallucinations can now be

1153
00:49:41,859 --> 00:49:38,149
explained like as a mental thing rather

1154
00:49:44,620 --> 00:49:41,869
than you know rather than a mystical God

1155
00:49:45,939 --> 00:49:44,630
yeah so absolutely i think it's going to

1156
00:49:47,529 --> 00:49:45,949
take a long time but i think that

1157
00:49:50,259 --> 00:49:47,539
there's definitely signals that it's

1158
00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:50,269
it's moving that way that's very

1159
00:49:57,189 --> 00:49:53,569
positive banter and what time frame are

1160
00:49:59,409 --> 00:49:57,199
we looking at decades centuries I'd say

1161
00:50:02,649 --> 00:49:59,419
definitely decades I'd like to be more

1162
00:50:05,319 --> 00:50:02,659
positive than four centuries I mean but

1163
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:05,329
if we compare you know how things were

1164
00:50:11,139 --> 00:50:07,729
in you know a hundred years ago we've

1165
00:50:13,509 --> 00:50:11,149
moved you know huge leaps and bounds

1166
00:50:15,819 --> 00:50:13,519
forward and especially you know as we

1167
00:50:18,279 --> 00:50:15,829
improve in technology and everyone

1168
00:50:20,570 --> 00:50:18,289
starts to get a better level education

1169
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,580
and understanding about technology

1170
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:23,040
we start to sort of debunk all the

1171
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,750
things that we used to believe in so I

1172
00:50:28,910 --> 00:50:26,160
think it's going to get faster and

1173
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:28,920
faster hopefully exponential but don't

1174
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:31,920
quote me but you know I'd like to I'd

1175
00:50:36,110 --> 00:50:33,420
like to think that it's in the next two

1176
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:36,120
decades that we would be able to get rid

1177
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:38,640
of ideas such as homeopathy and

1178
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:40,260
chiropractors and things like that and

1179
00:50:45,530 --> 00:50:42,810
get to more of a you know a factual

1180
00:50:48,020 --> 00:50:45,540
basis and you know science basis for all

1181
00:50:50,180 --> 00:50:48,030
the decisions we make I certainly hope

1182
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:50,190
so now what part of the UK you from I'm

1183
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:52,050
originally from Cambridge but I mostly

1184
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:55,110
live and work in London how long have

1185
00:50:59,900 --> 00:50:56,970
you been in Australia now I've just

1186
00:51:01,460 --> 00:50:59,910
moved to australia in december so only

1187
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:01,470
been here a couple of month old you know

1188
00:51:05,420 --> 00:51:02,700
you've already picked up a little

1189
00:51:07,310 --> 00:51:05,430
Australian action yes I'm sorry I

1190
00:51:10,580 --> 00:51:07,320
haven't have to apologize for it the

1191
00:51:12,410 --> 00:51:10,590
local influence what can I say lovely to

1192
00:51:16,430 --> 00:51:12,420
see you with your double helix earrings

1193
00:51:19,340 --> 00:51:16,440
yes thank you I i I'm very passionate

1194
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:19,350
about science and I just really love and

1195
00:51:25,130 --> 00:51:21,720
enjoy it so much that i find it inspires

1196
00:51:42,450 --> 00:51:25,140
me and and yeah i really love being here

1197
00:51:47,020 --> 00:51:45,430
this is ben Radford I'm deputy editor of

1198
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:47,030
skeptical inquirer science magazine

1199
00:51:50,980 --> 00:51:49,070
author of six books including tracking

1200
00:52:12,450 --> 00:51:50,990
chupacabra and you can find out more

1201
00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:15,010
well I'm here would want us Bay people

1202
00:52:18,250 --> 00:52:16,670
and I could not be more excited in my

1203
00:52:21,070 --> 00:52:18,260
little small pants because I'm actually

1204
00:52:22,750 --> 00:52:21,080
touching at this very moment a DeLorean

1205
00:52:25,330 --> 00:52:22,760
that's right there's only a couple of

1206
00:52:26,350 --> 00:52:25,340
them around and this is an electric one

1207
00:52:27,850 --> 00:52:26,360
I mean a lot of people talk about

1208
00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:27,860
science a lot of people talk a big game

1209
00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:29,420
about science but here's a guy is

1210
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:30,950
actually done something for science and

1211
00:52:36,130 --> 00:52:33,680
turned a DeLorean car into an electric

1212
00:52:38,050 --> 00:52:36,140
DeLorean car who are you and why would

1213
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:38,060
you do a crazy thing like this ok my

1214
00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:39,410
name is Brett Sutherland from solar

1215
00:52:43,420 --> 00:52:41,630
power shreya other reason is I've always

1216
00:52:45,310 --> 00:52:43,430
had a passion for the DeLorean probably

1217
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:45,320
since the movies back to the future

1218
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:48,350
movies and also order to to build

1219
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:51,170
electric car so it's hard to do both but

1220
00:52:54,010 --> 00:52:52,730
this is like for some people this could

1221
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:54,020
be sacrilege it could be could be like a

1222
00:52:57,490 --> 00:52:55,970
Ferrari Enzo like ripping out the engine

1223
00:52:58,930 --> 00:52:57,500
and putting something in did you have to

1224
00:53:00,610 --> 00:52:58,940
think deep and long about this because

1225
00:53:02,260 --> 00:53:00,620
if you has the value of the kind of been

1226
00:53:03,970 --> 00:53:02,270
affected by turning into an electric one

1227
00:53:05,890 --> 00:53:03,980
well there's a couple of points here

1228
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:05,900
like one of my mates is exactly like

1229
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:07,730
that he was pretty well against be

1230
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:10,190
pulling the motor out with the blah does

1231
00:53:13,540 --> 00:53:12,290
he drive butter HQ Kingswood no he's in

1232
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:13,550
the Mustangs and things like that but

1233
00:53:16,450 --> 00:53:15,410
like I said HQ kids would yeah just what

1234
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:16,460
a bigger motor on a different shape

1235
00:53:20,620 --> 00:53:18,170
that's right but in one day is an

1236
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:20,630
American Mustangs a girl's car exactly

1237
00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:23,210
but here's against it as long with a lot

1238
00:53:27,070 --> 00:53:24,950
of other people but he's now seen the

1239
00:53:28,990 --> 00:53:27,080
vehicle and realizes it was done well

1240
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:29,000
and it's actually improved the vehicle

1241
00:53:33,730 --> 00:53:31,280
and the motor it was in indy car wasn't

1242
00:53:35,830 --> 00:53:33,740
that powerful I cuz a 2.8 liter v6 which

1243
00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:35,840
was about 130 horsepower and there was a

1244
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:38,300
lotus engine it was a puja renault

1245
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:40,490
evolve our engine so prv they called it

1246
00:53:45,460 --> 00:53:43,520
well okay so where did you find one as

1247
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:45,470
far as i know very few were sold in this

1248
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,210
country and there was an expensive

1249
00:53:52,450 --> 00:53:49,520
process well there's a guy who imports

1250
00:53:54,220 --> 00:53:52,460
us cars to sell and and make a little

1251
00:53:56,380 --> 00:53:54,230
bit of money for charities he actually

1252
00:53:58,510 --> 00:53:56,390
brought it in and pre much too soon as a

1253
00:54:00,370 --> 00:53:58,520
gaudy I bought it off him so I found it

1254
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,380
they sort of valued around forty to

1255
00:54:04,750 --> 00:54:02,240
fifty thousand dollars for for a car in

1256
00:54:06,370 --> 00:54:04,760
a standard form and it was spent

1257
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:06,380
probably about fifty or sixty thousand

1258
00:54:09,370 --> 00:54:08,000
dollars converting it now did you get

1259
00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:09,380
the thing where you put the banana on

1260
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:10,880
top and it turns it into fusion and you

1261
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:12,170
can just drive away like in the movie

1262
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:14,720
know yet what didn't have a mr. fusion

1263
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:16,550
with it not yet but maybe it's something

1264
00:54:21,820 --> 00:54:19,090
could add but now i'm looking here and

1265
00:54:23,980 --> 00:54:21,830
because i know i believe the technical

1266
00:54:26,650 --> 00:54:23,990
term is if I about convert

1267
00:54:28,450 --> 00:54:26,660
a car to electric what was the main

1268
00:54:29,890 --> 00:54:28,460
challenge I mean to me you've got a huge

1269
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:29,900
area in the front here where you could

1270
00:54:32,620 --> 00:54:30,710
put something is that where the

1271
00:54:34,930 --> 00:54:32,630
batteries ago there are some batteries

1272
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:34,940
in the front Richard did this room in

1273
00:54:38,290 --> 00:54:36,710
the boot unlike a lot of electric cars

1274
00:54:40,210 --> 00:54:38,300
particularly the mini that was converted

1275
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:40,220
to electric reason later there's room in

1276
00:54:43,180 --> 00:54:41,570
the boot here that's right well we

1277
00:54:44,980 --> 00:54:43,190
actually the only thing we took it out

1278
00:54:46,210 --> 00:54:44,990
was a spare wheel well so we cut that

1279
00:54:47,950 --> 00:54:46,220
section out so the batteries are

1280
00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:47,960
actually in there there's more batteries

1281
00:54:52,510 --> 00:54:50,270
in the back and essentially it's got so

1282
00:54:54,670 --> 00:54:52,520
there are spaces I had before but

1283
00:54:56,740 --> 00:54:54,680
obviously you would never go drag racing

1284
00:54:59,590 --> 00:54:56,750
in this or exceed the speed limit but if

1285
00:55:02,440 --> 00:54:59,600
someone was in a fictitious situation to

1286
00:55:04,990 --> 00:55:02,450
do that what are you not 100 and

1287
00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:05,000
possibly a top speed that possibly a car

1288
00:55:09,250 --> 00:55:06,710
like this could obtain in a fictional

1289
00:55:10,660 --> 00:55:09,260
condition well I would guess like

1290
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:10,670
standard it would have done a bit not

1291
00:55:13,810 --> 00:55:12,770
110 seconds which is not very impressive

1292
00:55:16,900 --> 00:55:13,820
but I think it'll be more like seven

1293
00:55:18,340 --> 00:55:16,910
alright maybe they're so haven't tried

1294
00:55:19,810 --> 00:55:18,350
it yet but it does pull a lot harder

1295
00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:19,820
than it used to and of course the

1296
00:55:23,980 --> 00:55:21,110
deloreans known as the Back to the

1297
00:55:25,150 --> 00:55:23,990
Future car but it's also very unusual

1298
00:55:26,530 --> 00:55:25,160
because as far as I know there aren't

1299
00:55:29,260 --> 00:55:26,540
many cars that have a stainless steel

1300
00:55:30,609 --> 00:55:29,270
body now that's right this has got the

1301
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,619
stainless steel outer shell which

1302
00:55:35,290 --> 00:55:32,480
actually is could be doesn't require any

1303
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:35,300
paintwork and yeah this cars 30 years

1304
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:38,000
older still looks quite good I was a

1305
00:55:42,070 --> 00:55:39,680
good design and the idea was to replace

1306
00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:42,080
panels in lieu of repair them now of

1307
00:55:46,090 --> 00:55:44,630
course stainless steel is heavier than

1308
00:55:48,010 --> 00:55:46,100
what you would normally have on the body

1309
00:55:49,930 --> 00:55:48,020
so as that made the car heavier overall

1310
00:55:51,849 --> 00:55:49,940
because of the stainless steel body no

1311
00:55:54,310 --> 00:55:51,859
because the style still so strong it's

1312
00:55:56,740 --> 00:55:54,320
really thin and the body itself actually

1313
00:55:58,599 --> 00:55:56,750
made of fiberglass so the stainless

1314
00:56:00,760 --> 00:55:58,609
steel is just an outer outer shell for

1315
00:56:02,770 --> 00:56:00,770
appearance yeah we probably driving down

1316
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:02,780
the shops is that you get bow that point

1317
00:56:06,250 --> 00:56:04,730
absolutely it takes a lot longer to go

1318
00:56:08,380 --> 00:56:06,260
anywhere and say the reason any guy

1319
00:56:10,690 --> 00:56:08,390
modifies any car is to get the chicks so

1320
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:10,700
how does it go well it seems to work it

1321
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:13,520
types of blokes too unfortunately it

1322
00:56:16,450 --> 00:56:15,050
just gets everybody and you just kind of

1323
00:56:18,099 --> 00:56:16,460
got to work your way through the crowd

1324
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:18,109
take a number people that's the way it's

1325
00:56:22,510 --> 00:56:20,990
got to go and of course you get the yes

1326
00:56:24,190 --> 00:56:22,520
that would be into lowering is used in

1327
00:56:26,170 --> 00:56:24,200
the yet you get a lot of gigs coming up

1328
00:56:28,030 --> 00:56:26,180
to a lot of a shooter scientists yeah

1329
00:56:29,859 --> 00:56:28,040
it's quite funny what you see see geek

1330
00:56:32,170 --> 00:56:29,869
still sort of red laughing and other

1331
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:32,180
people just point and yeah this it's the

1332
00:56:34,690 --> 00:56:33,410
same reason why I like the car it's

1333
00:56:36,730 --> 00:56:34,700
basically it's got some sort of traction

1334
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:36,740
about it that ever just says yeah I

1335
00:56:39,610 --> 00:56:37,280
where's your

1336
00:56:42,330 --> 00:56:39,620
capacitor but the benefit is it's got a

1337
00:56:44,380 --> 00:56:42,340
axial flux motor so he's the same deal

1338
00:56:45,970 --> 00:56:44,390
yeah and what do you think we have to

1339
00:56:48,070 --> 00:56:45,980
have as far as infrastructure goes

1340
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:48,080
before we have a successful electric car

1341
00:56:52,090 --> 00:56:50,090
market in Australia we need obviously

1342
00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:52,100
more charging stations so that's the way

1343
00:56:56,350 --> 00:56:53,420
the future there should be more of those

1344
00:56:58,060 --> 00:56:56,360
around in quicker charging so if that

1345
00:56:59,560 --> 00:56:58,070
the charging stations can actually

1346
00:57:01,690 --> 00:56:59,570
produce a lot of power than they could

1347
00:57:03,550 --> 00:57:01,700
actually charge a vehicle within half an

1348
00:57:05,350 --> 00:57:03,560
hour so what about inductive charging

1349
00:57:06,910 --> 00:57:05,360
where if you drive up to your parking

1350
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:06,920
spot at work or in a car station it

1351
00:57:10,510 --> 00:57:08,570
actually charges while you're on the mat

1352
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:10,520
there is that anywhere near happening in

1353
00:57:14,290 --> 00:57:12,410
Australia I've never seen it happening

1354
00:57:16,030 --> 00:57:14,300
but yeah it sounds a wee bit idea okay

1355
00:57:17,650 --> 00:57:16,040
well I think what a good idea is to get

1356
00:57:18,970 --> 00:57:17,660
into the passenger seat of this car and

1357
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:18,980
you take me for a bit of a drive and

1358
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:23,090
let's just see how we go no I'm hopping

1359
00:57:29,470 --> 00:57:27,050
into the DeLorean now now unfortunately

1360
00:57:31,060 --> 00:57:29,480
no sort of carbon dioxide type gas came

1361
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:31,070
out the bottom open the door open so

1362
00:57:36,070 --> 00:57:33,530
frankly I'm a bit disappointed there we

1363
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:36,080
go now of course it's the first time

1364
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,130
this is the first time I've ever

1365
00:57:41,140 --> 00:57:39,200
encountered a gold or is it with the

1366
00:57:44,500 --> 00:57:41,150
only the Gullwing door okay so you shut

1367
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:44,510
it like this there we go right and I

1368
00:57:48,210 --> 00:57:46,610
tell you it's it's a nice solid pump I

1369
00:57:52,180 --> 00:57:48,220
better put the sleepin alone because

1370
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:52,190
having seen electric cars go and

1371
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:55,310
actually hear that everybody that's

1372
00:57:59,130 --> 00:57:56,690
right you can't hear anything because

1373
00:58:02,670 --> 00:57:59,140
it's an electric car

1374
00:58:04,590 --> 00:58:02,680
I think this might be my first time in

1375
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:04,600
electric car little now mind you one

1376
00:58:12,090 --> 00:58:09,280
thing I must say the roof is about two

1377
00:58:14,220 --> 00:58:12,100
inches above my head I got to say

1378
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:14,230
despite the roof being so low it's

1379
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:16,570
contoured so it fits in there that's

1380
00:58:21,210 --> 00:58:19,570
right it's basically Joel Holy Mother of

1381
00:58:23,610 --> 00:58:21,220
pants it's got a bit of an acceleration

1382
00:58:24,990 --> 00:58:23,620
there Brett yes yeah John DeLorean was

1383
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:25,000
quite tall himself so he had these

1384
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:27,250
cutouts put in a roof to support tall

1385
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:30,130
people are now you have a little bit of

1386
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:32,830
a you've got a you've got a tablet

1387
00:58:38,310 --> 00:58:35,680
computer there reading out all the items

1388
00:58:40,430 --> 00:58:38,320
for you there and what carrots being

1389
00:58:43,410 --> 00:58:40,440
drawn from the motifs is 200 300 Debs

1390
00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:43,420
Wow yes you can idea what's happening so

1391
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:45,580
I tells you here with capacities left in

1392
00:58:50,130 --> 00:58:47,920
the batteries so you know how much range

1393
00:58:53,460 --> 00:58:50,140
you've got went so it felt like to get

1394
00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:53,470
from pretty much zero to 260 k there

1395
00:58:59,970 --> 00:58:55,510
took about two seconds yeah its pulse

1396
00:59:01,830 --> 00:58:59,980
quite hard what I really have it now so

1397
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:01,840
if we go fast enough will we go back to

1398
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:05,050
the 50s with a bit of luck I'd like to

1399
00:59:14,420 --> 00:59:12,500
yeah we are cruising along now I assure

1400
00:59:15,590 --> 00:59:14,430
you everyone at exactly the speed limit

1401
00:59:19,790 --> 00:59:15,600
we are not exceeding the speed limit

1402
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:19,800
whatsoever and it's great remember the

1403
00:59:24,860 --> 00:59:23,010
time of my life yeah I took the looks on

1404
00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:24,870
people's faces as you go past them and a

1405
00:59:29,350 --> 00:59:26,910
bit like Idaho it a helmet all right

1406
00:59:31,550 --> 00:59:29,360
look at no that's not Michael J Fox

1407
00:59:33,230 --> 00:59:31,560
that's even funny if I have my daughter

1408
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:33,240
in the car because it's left hand drive

1409
00:59:40,250 --> 00:59:35,640
everyone thinks that she's driving but

1410
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:40,260
she wouldn't mind that at all no oh yes

1411
00:59:44,660 --> 00:59:42,810
so look we're back at the workshop now

1412
00:59:47,450 --> 00:59:44,670
driving bus my car which makes me feel

1413
00:59:48,740 --> 00:59:47,460
pretty sad just ok well now ok now the

1414
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:48,750
challenge of opening the Gullwing door

1415
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:50,250
what I do a this here is this at yep

1416
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,890
pull that pull that an up it goes again

1417
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:55,200
no carbon dioxide gas coming down at the

1418
00:59:59,150 --> 00:59:57,330
bottom of it unfortunately and you got

1419
01:00:19,650 --> 00:59:59,160
to mind your head as you can get out but

1420
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:23,020
I'm courses hello an ally Dawson to her

1421
01:00:27,430 --> 01:00:25,850
at the skeptics on podcasts were stood

1422
01:00:29,530 --> 01:00:27,440
here this is alvin Dutch Manannan

1423
01:00:32,020 --> 01:00:29,540
skeptic of abundant gift for vital

1424
01:00:36,910 --> 01:00:32,030
information newborns on the skeptic a

1425
01:00:40,030 --> 01:00:36,920
magazine bisous v.v.v point in kv OOP a

1426
01:00:44,380 --> 01:00:40,040
punk talk each vida holla vay vay vay

1427
01:01:02,020 --> 01:00:44,390
pumped TV rupee Potok on tons of it say

1428
01:01:06,140 --> 01:01:04,160
well thank you for listening to the

1429
01:01:08,510 --> 01:01:06,150
skeptic zone this week and I'm here at

1430
01:01:10,610 --> 01:01:08,520
the breakfast table still enjoying the

1431
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:10,620
odd pancake Oh to Eden Smith thank you

1432
01:01:14,510 --> 01:01:12,330
for making those lovely pancakes you're

1433
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:14,520
very welcome rich at any time they were

1434
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:17,130
delicious with honey our local honey and

1435
01:01:21,380 --> 01:01:18,690
I can even hear the bees buzz note to

1436
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:21,390
fly i'm here at the breakfast table with

1437
01:01:24,830 --> 01:01:23,220
all my skeptical friends we're here for

1438
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:24,840
the mighty mid a muster the water

1439
01:01:30,550 --> 01:01:27,510
divining test a full report about the

1440
01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:30,560
water divining test on next week's show

1441
01:01:34,580 --> 01:01:32,760
lori do you think we'll be giving away

1442
01:01:36,860 --> 01:01:34,590
the hundred and ten thousand dollar

1443
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:36,870
prize to a water diviner well Richard is

1444
01:01:40,820 --> 01:01:39,000
any good skeptic would say well wait

1445
01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:40,830
until we gathered the evidence I have no

1446
01:01:47,180 --> 01:01:43,140
opinion until we get the data in what a

1447
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:47,190
good skeptic and so from the wonderful

1448
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:48,810
countryside at midwinter andale next

1449
01:02:00,530 --> 01:01:50,610
week this is Richard Saunders signing

1450
01:02:05,510 --> 01:02:00,540
off you've been listening to the skeptic

1451
01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:05,520
zone visit our website at www skeptics